Plato 2004. Republic. Translated from the New Standard Greek Text, with Introduction, by C. D. C. Reeve. Indianapolis; Cambridge: Hackett Publishing Company, Inc. [Book X]
SOCRATES: Then in the present case, too, let's take any set of many things you like. For example, there are, if you like, many couches and tables.
GLAUCON: Of course.
SOCRATES: But the forms connected to these manufactured items are surely just two, one of a couch and one of a table. (Plato 2004: 298, 596b)
See on minu jaoks hämmastav, et laudade ja toolide näide (tookenist ja tüübist) ei olegi sattumuslik hilisem lisandus, vaid Platoni enda oma.
SOCRATES: Well, then, we have these three sorts of couches. One, that is in nature, which I think we would say a god makes. Or is it someone else?
GLAUCON: No one, I suppose.
SOCRATES: One the carpenter makes.
GLAUCON: Yes. [|]
SOCRATES: And one the painter makes. Isn't that so?
GLAUCON: It is.
SOCRATES: So painter, carpenter, and god - these three oversee three kinds of couches? (Plato 2004: 299-300, 597b)
Jumala kätetöö: lugematud galaktikad, mustad augud, diivani idee.
SOCRATES: Then if there is nothing of a public nature, is Homer said to have been a leader, during his own lifetime, in the education of people who loved associating with him and passed on a Homeric way of life to those who came later? Is he like Pythagoras, who was himself particularly loved for this reason, and whose followers even today still seem to be conspicuous for a way of life they call Pythagorean? (Plato 2004: 303, 600a-b)
Katkend, mida olen pidanud varasemalt juba käima uudistamas. Pythagoras jättis endast järele märkimisväärse eluviisi, aga Homeros mitte.
SOCRATES: How well situated the poetic imitator is, then, in relation to wisdom about the subjects of his poems!
GLAUCON: He isn't really.
SOCRATES: And yet he will go on imitating all the same, even though he does not know in what way each thing is good or bad. On the contrary, whatever appears good to the masses who know nothing - that, it seems, is what he will imitate. (Plato 2004: 305, 602a-b)
Sarnane lugu on minu arvates aimekirjandusega, mis peab olema erihariduseta lugejale arusaadav ja seeläbi võib olulistes punktides eksida.
SOCRATES: And the same things appears bent and straight when seen in water or out of it, or concave and convex because sight is misled by colors; and every other similar sort of confusion is clearly present in our soul. It is because it exploits this weakness in our nature that illusionist painting is nothing short of sorcery, and neither are jugglery or many other similar sorts of trickery. (Plato 2004: 306, 602c-d)
Lisandus sirge ja kõvera vastandusele.
SOCRATES: Now, tell me this about him: do you think he will be more likely to fight and resist pain when he is seen by his equals, or when he is just by himself in a solitary place?
GLAUCON: He's sure to fight it far more when he is being seen.
SOCRATES: But when he is alone, I imagine, he will venture to say many things he would be ashamed if someone else heard, and to do many things he would not want anyone else to see him doing. (Plato 2004: 308, 604a)
Ähmeselt meenub üks pütaagorlik õpetussõna, mille järgi omaette olles tuleks käituda samavõrd respektaablilt kui teiste inimeste seltskonnas.
SOCRATES: The law says, as you know, that it is best to keep as quiet as possible in misfortunes and not get irritated, since what is really good or bad in such things is not clear. There is nothing to be gained by taking [|] them hard, nor is any aspect of human affairs worth getting very serious about. And the very thing whose aid we need as quickly as possible in such circumstances is the one our grieving hinders. (Plato 2004: 308-309, 604b)
Mis sa ulud, need on kõigest inimhädad.
GLAUCON: You must have something incredibly great in mind, if it is greater than those already mentioned!
SOCRATES: In a short period of time, could anything really great come to pass? I mean, the entire period from childhood to old age is surely short when compared to the whole of time.
GLAUCON: It's a mere nothing. (Plato 2004: 313, 608c)
Inimelu on tähtsusetult lühike.
SOCRATES: Well, then, what about the soul? Isn't there something that makes it bad?
GLAUCON: Certainly. All the things we were discussing earlier: injustice, intemperance, cowardice, and ignorance. (Plato 2004: 314)
Hinge kahjustavad: (1) mõõdutundetus, (2) argus, (3) teadmatus ja (4) ebaõiglus.
SOCRATES: Well, then, let's assume it to be so. And if it is so, you realize that the same ones will always exist. I mean, they surely could not become fewer in number if none is destroyed, or more numerous either. For if anything immortal is increased, you know that the increase would have to come from the mortal, and then everything would end up being immortal. (Plato 2004: 316)
Meid on praegu üle 8 miljardi. 50 aasta pärast ennustatakse 10 miljardit. 2 miljardit hinge passib praegu, ootab oma sündi?
SOCRATES: Well, it is not an Alcinus-story I am going to tel lyou, but that of a brave man called Er, the son of Armenias, by race of Pamphylian. [|] Once upon a time, he was killed in battle. On the tenth day, when the rest of the dead were picked up, they were already putrefying, but he was picked up still quite sound. When he had been taken home and was lying on the pyre before his funeral on the twelfth day, he revived and, after reviving, told what he had see nin the other world.
He said that when his soul had departed, it traveled together with many others and come to a daimonic place, where there were two adjacent openings in the earth and two in the heavens above and opposite them. Judges were seated between these. And, when they had made their judgments, they told the just to go to the right up through the heavens, with signs of the judgments attached to their fronts. But the unjust they told to travel to the left and down. And they too had on their backs signs of all their deeds. When he himself came forward, they said that he was to be a messenger to humans beings to tell them about the things happening there, and they told him to listen to and look at everything in the place.
Through one of the openings in the heavens and one in the earth, he saw souls departing after judgment had been passed on them. Through the other two, they were arriving. From the one in the earth came up parched and dusty, while from the one in the heavens they came down pure. And the ones that had just arrived seemed to have come down from a long journey, and went off gladly to the meadow, like a crowd going to a festival, and set up camp there. Those that knew one another exchanged greetings and those coming up from the earth asked the others about the things up there, while those from the heavens asked about the others' experiences. They told their stories to one another, the former weeping and lamenting as they recollected all they had suffered and seen on their journey below the earth - which lasted a thousand years - and the ones from heaven telling, in turn, about their happy experiences and the inconceivably beautiful sights they had seen.
To tell it all, Glaucon, would take a long time. But the gist, he said, was this: for all the unjust things they had done and for all the people they had wronged, they had paid the penalty for every one in turn, ten times over for each. That is to say, they paid for each injustice once in every hundred years of their journey, so that, on the assumption that a hundred years is roughtly the length of a human life, they paid a tenfold penalty for each injustice. For example, if some of them had caused many deaths or had betrayed cities or armies and reduced them to slavery, or had taken part in other evildoing, they would receive ten times the pain for each of them. On the other hand, if they had done good deeds and become just and pious, they received commensurate awards. (Plato 2004: 319-320, 614b-615b)
Äärmiselt huvitav kirjeldus. Kõige halva eest, mida elus korda saadad, saad maa all tuhat aastat kümnekordselt ise kogeda.
[SOCRATES:] They reached the beam after traveling another day's journey. And there, in the middle of the light, they saw stretching from the heavens the ends of its bonds - for this light is what binds the heavens, like the cables underneath a trireme, thus holding the entire revolving thing together. From those ends hangs the spindle of Necessity, by means of which all the revolving things are turned. Its shaft and hook were adamant, while its whorl was adamant mixed with materials of other kinds. (Plato 2004: 321, 616b-c)
Kirjelduse järgi natuke raske ette kujutada, aga eks sekundaarkirjandusest selgub.
[SOCRATES:] After saying that, the spokesman threw the lots out among them all, and each picked up the one that fell next to him - except for Er, who was not allowed. And to the one who picked it up, it was clear whan number he had drawn. After that again the spokesman placed the models of lived on the ground before them - many more of them than those who were present. They were multifarious: all animal lives were there, as well as all human lives. There were tyrannies among them, some life-long, others ending halfway through in poverty, exile, and beggary. There were lives of famous men - some famous for the beauty of their appearance or for their other strengths or athletic prowess, others for their nobility and the virtues of their ancestors, and also some infamous in these respects - and similarly for women. But the structure of the soul was not included, because with the choice of a different life it would inevitably become different. But all the other qualities were mixed with each other and with wealth or poverty, sickness or health, or the states in between. (Plato 2004: 323, 617d-718b)
See loterii on küll paras jaga. Nagu selgub järgnevast, võib siin valesti valida. Mul on kahtlane tunne, et see on lihtsalt ilustatum, eskatoloogilisem versioon Sokratese üllast valest hinge-metallide kohta.
[SOCRATES:] He said it was a sight worth seeing how the various souls chose their lives, since seeing it caused pity, ridicule, and surprise. For the most part, their choice reflected the character of their former life. He saw the soul that had once belonged to Orpheus, he said, choosing a swan's life: he hated the female sex because of his death at their hands, and so was unwilling to be conceived in a woman and born. He saw the soul of Thamyris choosing a nightingale's life, a swan changing to the choice of a human life, and other musical animals doing the same. The twentieth soul chose the life of a lion. It was that of Ajax, son of Telamon, who avoided human life because he remembered the judgment about the armor. (Plato 2004: 325, 619e-620b)
Päris kehv süsteem kui sellised mõttetud kehalised traumad jälitavad sind kõik su ülejäänud elud.
[SOCRATES:] They camped, since evening was coming on, beside the river of forgetfulness, whose water no vessel can hold. All of them had to drink a certain measure of this water. But those not saved by wisdom drank more than the measure. (Plato 2004: 325, 621a)
Unustuse jõest peab jooma, muidu sinna peidetud varikätke ei leia.
[SOCRATES:] And so, Glaucon, his story was saved and not lost; and it would save us, too, if it were persuaded by it, since we would safely cross the river Lethe with our souls undefiled. (Plato 2004: 326)
Saan ma õigesti aru, et Sokrates soovitab siin võtta seda lugu tõsiselt ja mitte juua Lethe jõest, ükskõik kui palav ja tolmune Lethe väli ka ei oleks?
0 comments:
Post a Comment